Deremy and Jose discuss Lakers vs Celtics on the 40th anniversary of the 1984 NBA Finals
The guys are talking about the rivalry that saved the NBA and maybe the greatest NBA Finals of all time: 1984's Lakers vs Celtics!! They look at the 5 year anticipation for this matchup, how important this series was for Larry Bird and his legacy, and what this series did for Magic Johnson. Was this was a crossroads for his career? And who can forget the greatness of Kareem Abdul Jabbar and his gutsy performance. The legends and myths that come from this series and this rivalry are still felt in the league today.
All this and so much more!! It’s the 40th anniversary of the 84 Finals and we’re breaking it down like no one else!!! Right here on Bigger Than The Game with Deremy and Jose!
Deremy (00:00.302)
Welcome to Bigger Than a Game with Dereme and Jose. I'm Dereme Dove and I'm joined by my tag team partner, the hardest working man in show business, Mr. Jose Ruiz. What's going on,
Jose Ruiz (00:12.504)
Dereme Dove, Dove, what's up dude? How you doing man? It's good to be here man, it's good to see you. It's always good to be here with you man.
Deremy (00:19.748)
Yeah, man. So we, this is our first episode. had a little summer break. you know, we're working people like obviously with this, but with everything, you know, else we have other jobs and everything going on. so we had a little, summer break from the show, but we appreciate bigger than the game nation, still listening, still supporting us while we had our summer break and, we're back and we're excited to give this episode and Jose, this is one that
Jose Ruiz (00:26.124)
Yeah, hell yeah.
Deremy (00:48.016)
We're more excited than I was to talk about this. And it's crazy that August 12th will be 30 years since, and that was the start of the 94 baseball
Jose Ruiz (00:50.711)
Yeah.
Jose Ruiz (01:01.784)
Yeah, that's, that is insane to me. When you hear them dates and stuff like that and how long ago that was, it just reminds me I'm getting, I'm definitely going, I'm not old, but I'm getting old. But, oh man, like this, that 94 season, man, like, you know, obviously what people remember it as for the baseball strike and everything that happened afterwards and how baseball suffered after all of that. And you know, what brought it back was 98 and that home run chase and all that,
Well, people kind of forget sometimes, man, like that season itself was a, was becoming a very, very good season, you know, and just historically there was a lot of stuff going on and, we'll get into some of that stuff like Tony Gwyn and what he was doing and things like that. But what I remember that season the most there, I mean, I think you do too. It's, it's, it's that 1994 Montreal Expos team and
that the season that they were having and in route to possibly, you know, a World Series trip and, maybe a championship for Montreal Expos and, and how that got taken away from them, man. And even I was not an expo fan. You were not an expo fan, even though you got the nice hat on there and me. but even I felt like, man, like that's so messed up for that team, man. And that's why this team, again, I think it needs to be talked about a lot more. And we're definitely here to do that at Bigger Than a Game.
Deremy (02:08.495)
Mm -hmm.
Deremy (02:20.816)
No, absolutely. And we're definitely looking at the 94 Expos. And I think, you know, they go, it's intertwined the 94 Expos and that baseball strike, because, you know, you can look at the other sports have had lockouts, but it's so weird because this is one that's so easy to point. You can see, look at the struggles of baseball 30 years later, and you can go right back to that 94 baseball strike.
And I think it just shows you how crazy it is that, you know, times of the essence, you can be on top and you think the sports going great. mean, you look at baseball, the 93 World Series, which is painful for us as being from Philly, but you end it on a great high of like exciting Joe Carter's home run. was an exciting series, back to back champs. The 94 season kicks in. People are going to the game.
Football is definitely the number one sport, but baseball is still popular. And like you said, all these historic things are happening. Matt Williams and Griffey are chasing Roger Maris, you know, 61 home run record. Tony Gwinn's floating with 400. The Yankees, you know, and they did bounce back obviously the next year in 95. And we all know what happened later in the decade of the nineties, but the Yankees were looking to come back and that was going to be their first.
co -season appearance in 13 years. So all these things were happening, but the number one story always goes Montreal Expos, man. And Jose, just why do you think that it's something that, man, the first thing with this historic strike that really took America's past time down, the first thing we talk about is the 94 Expos.
Jose Ruiz (04:09.25)
Because, I mean, they were, like I said, they were in route to a possible World Series, you know, appearance and possibly a championship, And then also, me as a fan at that time, I was young, but I was a diehard baseball fan, and I'm sure you were too, Jeremy. I knew...
Jose Ruiz (04:32.504)
that that team was not going to be able to stay together for a long time. You know what mean? Like, so I was, in my mind, I was like, this was the shot, like 94 was the shot and it was, and that's exactly what happened. And even 93, you know, that incredible run they had, you know, August, September, and almost, they almost spoiled it for the Phillies. You know, they finished three games back at the Phillies. think they went
Deremy (04:35.674)
Mm -hmm.
Jose Ruiz (04:55.48)
It was a crazy number. was like 30 and like seven or something like that. And you know, those last 40 games or whatever amount of games it was, it was just an insane number and watching. that's kind of, for me, that's where I just started. It was like, man, watching them and watching that team develop and what it turned into at the end of 93. And you're like, wow, like this team's going to be something good, you know, and that's exactly what it was. And that's how they started. And then he went on another crazy run in 94 season.
I think they were like 40 and 18 after June or some crazy number like that, man. And it's like, they have all these young, great players. And as a fan, knew this wasn't gonna last long. This was the season where they were gonna be able to put it all together and they did. And it was just pulled right from under them, man.
Deremy (05:40.492)
One thing that's interesting to me is, and I think that's why I totally get why, like from what you just said, that the Expos are remembered, you know, but for the first thing, I think it surprises me because they weren't one of those flagship type franchises or like compared to another sport, the Seattle Sonics and basketball.
weren't a flagship franchise, but they were a cool franchise. And there was even like, you know, the fan base in Seattle, but then other people like liked Seattle. They liked to the team. They liked the jerseys, all these things. The Expos were kind of like this cult, like whatever team I felt like throughout all this time, all those years that I watched them. But then it's just like these past 20 years since they've been gone from Montreal. It's like all these Expo fans.
Jose Ruiz (06:12.054)
Right.
Deremy (06:36.376)
And maybe I'm crazy, Jose. Tell me. A little bit of me is like, where were y 'all then? I know there's some people in Montreal and stuff, it wasn't a booming franchise. Like, you know what I mean? I think that's what kind of gets
Jose Ruiz (06:46.601)
Right. No, and I agree with that and they left for a reason, right? Like we can always point to a lot of that stuff and you know, I know they were not a good team for a while there, for a long time there, you know, and then, you know, they started to get all these players and you know, they turned into what we're talking about here today, but you're right. Like if there was, I know, I know a lot goes into like the support piece. Like I know like,
You know, there's a great documentary, I think MLB network did it and you know, they talk about Montreal stadium and all that, like how that was like a big proponent for that and how like that, it was just not a good place to play baseball, you know, and a lot of things go into that, but I agree. No, I'm not. don't think you're crazy at all, Jeremy. I agree with you a hundred percent. Like where were all these expo fans, all these dudes wearing these hats like Jeremy's wearing today and like where were they at?
Deremy (07:13.583)
Mm -hmm.
Jose Ruiz (07:37.272)
Like, and they were not around because I didn't know any Expo fans growing up. You know what mean? When the team was there, even when they were winning a little bit, you know, they was probably fourth to fifth place for a while. Nobody really talked about them, you know, until the end of 93 or even 93, like the middle, after post like all -star break, people started really to talk about like the talent they had there, number one. But then, you know, 94, everybody was talking about them. And then 95, everybody was talking about them because obviously it's a big fall off.
I know in the early eighties they were, I was too young for all that. You know what mean? Like I think it was the early eighties with Lash Parrish and you know, a bunch of those other guys. They had a really good team then, but I was way too young for that. So even that, team, I don't hear nobody talking about those teams either. So, you know, I just knew Gary Carter came from there. That was it. you know, so yeah, and the Hawk, absolutely. yeah, so I don't know. I agree with that though.
Deremy (08:10.776)
Yeah. Mm -hmm.
Deremy (08:25.71)
Yeah, in the
Deremy (08:32.784)
No, I just think that's why, because the 94 strike, the aftermath, the effects of it, I think, you you have why baseball pushed the home run derby. I mean, the home run derby, but the home run boom of 98 and it was steroid. Like all of that is you can look at, the after effects of what happened in 94 and how, the fans were letting the owners, the players know that they're pissed. And it does surprise me a little bit
That isn't the first thing talked about with this strike. Everywhere you look now is these Montreal Expos. That's what happened. And I look at this team and this is one that I will give it. And I do remember this team. I know you do too. It was a lot of, not just like great talent on the team. Cause I think a lot of times in sports you can have great talent and teams are winning and winning is exciting in general. you're,
It doesn't mean like it's exciting product either. Like, you know, you're, you're happy they're winning if you're a fan, but you don't always get exciting on the field or on the court. These Expos had great talent and they were exciting to watch, man. They were a fun baseball team to watch.
Jose Ruiz (09:46.273)
Right, they did everything well, you know I'm saying like and as a fan, know, they had good pitch and I wouldn't call it I mean we can talk we're gonna talk about Pedro and all these guys, but I wouldn't call it Statistically, they were comparable to the Braves this season You know what mean? But we all know like they were not you know, the Braves and that rotation, but they were having a great season You know, but they can hit for power
They had tremendous speed. They played great defense. It was just like, you're right. It was such an exciting brand. It was almost like if baseball could do a fast break type of offense, that was these guys, you know, guys were putting up great numbers, you know, we're going to get into like the talent they have, but I think it's always exciting when it's a young team, you know what I mean? Like, and all these players that we're going to talk about in today's episode, they were all young, like just starting to really not even hit their prime yet. And then we,
As fans, you're like, man, like if, that team could have stayed together for another five or six years, man, it would have been tremendous baseball to see.
Deremy (10:50.34)
by far the youngest team in baseball that year. And I think it's just impressive just to see what they had. And one thing you could give the Expos franchise throughout, they did find talent. They knew how to like scout. Like throughout, they're, you could look at from when they first became a franchise all the way up to the end, they knew how to get talent. I mean, that was probably the one thing toward those latter years.
If the Expos were playing, like, they got Vlad Guerrero. Like they, you know, even then, like they knew we mentioned Gary Carter and Dawson and Tim Rains, like, and that's in the eighties. And then you look at, I mean, that outfield, man, what an outfield. And that's what jumps out to me, Jose, like first is you have Moises Alou, Marquise Grissom, and the Hall of Famer, Larry Walker in that outfield. That's, that's for that one year, it's tough to beat that outfield.
Jose Ruiz (11:47.808)
I was thinking that I was like, man, like I was thinking earlier, I was out, I went for a run and stuff and I was like thinking about the show. And I was like, even like for a young outfield, I can't remember a better one. know, like you can look at what Seattle was doing at Griffey, Jay Buhner, but Jay Buhner wasn't a young player. And that was not comparable. know, Cleveland at this time had a pretty good off Kenny Lofton. Like that wasn't comparable. You know, like it was just.
All three of these guys were five, players. You know what mean? Like maybe, maybe Grissom wasn't hitting 30 or 40 home runs, but he was getting, he was hitting 20 plus, you know what I mean? Like stealing 60 bases and gold gloves center field. each of them were all good, man. All five, players. And again, I honestly, like why I think about this team is I got robbed, you know what I mean? As a baseball fan of like such a great young team and,
Again, you start to see that you right after the year after some of them guys started to depart and but they were all great, man. Like they were all great players and you saw they left Montreal and had great careers right
Deremy (12:58.894)
Yeah, no, and to your point and that's what hit me was Offensively you probably have other outfields, but all three of these guys were great defensive players, too Absolutely, absolutely you can put them up there for an outfield arm. He's in the top ten I mean he had a cannon Marquis Grissom that speed how great he was defensively and you know Moises Alou I feel like the whole Steve Bartman thing people think about that, but he was a heck of a baseball player, too
Jose Ruiz (13:09.834)
Larry Walker had one of the best arms I've ever seen in right field.
Jose Ruiz (13:25.579)
Yeah.
Deremy (13:29.028)
you know, an all -star level guy as well. you know, there's a lot of other things that jump out, lot of other talent, but I kind of go to that outfield because I feel like in a perfect world, your foundation is those three guys. Like that's who, if everything would have went and all the stuff that we're talking about didn't happen, that's the core of my team is those three.
Jose Ruiz (13:29.069)
Yes?
Jose Ruiz (13:51.768)
Yeah, and if you got that locked down for years and years, like they just had it, like they had it in 94, 93, 94, then you were good to go. And now you had to just figure out pitching and you know, when you got now feel that's defensive, like that's great defensively like that, you can win with Dennis Martinez. You can win with guys like that. Like, you know what I mean? Like that they don't have to be Greg Maddux and Tom Glavine and Smoltz. Like you can win with just average pitching because they're
They're going to get all these fly balls. They're going to get in the gaps. They're going to do all of that stuff. So yeah, I thought about it long and hard and I was like, man, like in the outfield, like development, whatever, however you want to put it, man, this is, this is going to, this one is tough to
Deremy (14:34.67)
Yeah, it really is. you know, you also have to look at, you have a young Cliff Floyd, you know, Will Cordero was an all -star that year, you know, and then I think what's huge is them trading Delano De Shields. Yes. And for this young, skinny, right -handed pitcher
Jose Ruiz (14:41.6)
I know. Insane, man. It's crazy. He was an all -star. Yup.
Jose Ruiz (14:56.576)
Another grown young player.
Deremy (15:04.336)
The expo. Yeah, with a curl and the Expos at the time were crucified for making this move. How do you get rid of one of your young players like that after to your point you pushed you had this great one. You won over 90 games. And almost if there was a wild card would know the Braves through the Giants would have gotten that. Yeah, but like, you know, in today's game with all these wild cards, they would have been in in 93.
Jose Ruiz (15:04.6)
It's Jerry Curl.
Jose Ruiz (15:23.576)
Oh, yeah, the Braith. Yeah, because Giants had 100 wins.
Deremy (15:33.072)
But at that point, no, because the Giants won 103 games, know, which is crazy. But it was just insane. Like I said, they had these great exciting years and then you have this strike. you look at what happened, they make that trade for this guy named Pedro Martinez and Tommy Lasorda, the Dodgers were like, he's too skinny. He can't last. It's, one of the worst, maybe the worst trade in Dodger history wound up happening here.
At the time, everyone thought that the X -Files were crazy. I think that's just what happened. And that's the shame of it. They had some shrewd scouts and shrewd executives who were making some good moves for this
Jose Ruiz (16:14.316)
Yeah, I mean, because and just for context, like the reason why people were so upset is the line of the shields was a really good second baseman, a young up and coming second baseman. And they had the line of the shields leading off, I believe, or it might've been vice versa. And Marquis Grissom, those one and two guys, man. And it was like, if they got on base, they were still in second. They were going to move them more. was just, they were, they were always on base and creating, creating havoc for pitchers, man.
And it really was working for them. They're like, we were talking about like at the end of 93, like, and fans again, we're really excited about this team, you know, and, but then we talk about Pedro and you know how I feel about Pedro, man. And, you know, I love Pedro Martinez to death, man. And it's just that trade again, like not only put Pedro on the map, obviously, right. Cause he transformed the Montreal cause
Pedro was at the time is not what he was later on in his career. Like Pedro was a young, you know, while he had a lot of heat, he was one of those guys I was throwing 95 plus at a time that not, not a lot of guys were doing that, but he was really wild, man. And the key component, I think in all of this stuff that we can talk about too, Jeremy is.
You know, Felipe Alou, man, like, you know what saying? Like, and he knew Pedro from like the summer leagues down in Puerto Rico and things like that. And, you know, once Pedro came over, he taught Pedro that four -seam fast ball. He adjusted how he, you know, gripped the ball. And it was lights out for Pedro after that. You know what saying? And Pedro says it all the time. Like I saw him in an interview in the MMB network when he might've been Fox or wherever one of those episodes shows that he's on all the time. And he said it, I give all the credit to, you know, Felipe Alou for changing how I grip the ball that changed everything for me.
Deremy (17:58.448)
Yeah, absolutely. and Felipe Alou was long time manager for the Expos and someone respected in the game. I feel if anyone kind of got robbed, I got a foot in 94 Expos. I feel him because of they have a great run and say to get to the world series or win the world series. He gets more of that due because he talked about one of the great baseball minds and great baseball teachers ever.
what they had with Felipe Alou. Moises Alou's dad, you so his son is in the outfield, but hey, his son was an all -star level player. But absolutely. Like, I don't think you could give me, there's very few skippers at that time. And there's some great skippers who were managing at that time, but there's not too many who I would want to coach the youngest team in baseball more than Felipe
Jose Ruiz (18:31.882)
Right.
Jose Ruiz (18:46.432)
Yeah.
Jose Ruiz (18:55.202)
Yeah, he just looked like a great coach. You know what I mean? Like, and again, I think the part that a lot of people leave out, you know what I'm saying, is his understanding of this up and coming rise of talent that's coming out of the Dominican Republic, that's coming out of Puerto Rico, that's coming out of, you know, Cuba at the time. Well, I know they weren't like a lot of the guys coming out of Cuba, but just all that talent. He was
Deremy (18:58.298)
Mm -hmm.
Jose Ruiz (19:21.76)
He was knee deep in that town in the summer leagues and he knew all those guys. And so it was easy for him to like one build relationships with those guys, but to give information to his GM. Like, look, I've seen this guy, I've coached this guy. He's going to be a really good player, man. And I think that move for Pedro and him knowing Pedro the way he did, it was, it made sense to me like why his career took off when he got to Montreal.
Deremy (19:48.176)
And it really did. I Pedro leading, you know, up until when, you know, August 12th is when they stopped, but, you know, led the team with 142 strikeouts. He was 11 and five, you know, had 144 innings pitched, pitched in 24 games. Um, and with a good staff, know, Ken Hill was a good play. was an all star that year. He was. Yeah. He was fighting for, um, uh, Cy Young, honestly, that year, you know, so like that, that staff was.
Jose Ruiz (20:07.64)
Yeah, he was going to win over 20 games that year.
Yeah.
Deremy (20:17.616)
really that start in pitching was really good. And like you said earlier, for that year was gonna match the Braves. Now we know legacy wise, only Pedro matches them. in 94, they were ready to go toe to toe with one of the great pitching staffs in baseball history, those 90s Braves. So I mean, this was a loaded team.
Jose Ruiz (20:39.436)
Yeah, if I'm not mistaken, I think they led the league in ERA in, I think, starter wins, walks, and walks, not that they had the most walks, but the least walks of any team, and that's with Pedro, you know what I'm saying? Like, so that just goes to show you. And then, you you had that great starting pitching, well, this year it was great starting pitching. And then, you know, you get to the sixth, seventh inning.
And then things, things are done. you're not, once you get to Mel Rojas, John Wetland, a young John Wetland throwing 97 again at a time where not a lot of guys went doing that, you know, it was over, you know? So these starters were pitching six, seven innings, and then they were turning it over to this great bullpen. And it was just again, like how teams are built today, you know, like good starting pitching, give you five or six innings.
Got a bullpen guys pitched to six or seven and then you have your two guys at the end that are going to shut everything down and that's exactly what they
Deremy (21:37.68)
And John Wetland was looking at one of the top closers in the game and we see what happened two years later. 96 Yankees, their world champs, MVP of the World Series, John Wetland. So I mean, you had a guy, he proved it overall two years later, but you had a guy who would have been money for you if you would have gotten to the postseason. And I think that's where the other thing, I think these guys also showed because
You can make that counter argument. Well, how good would they have been in the postseason, right? Because this would have been the first year of the wild card. Like that rule, like Bud Selig had brought that in there. 95 winds up being it because of the strike. But so the Braves would have been in there for sure in the National League. then, know, Cleveland was fighting for that division title. even if they got the wild card, they're in there, you know, as well.
So and the White Sox were good with Frank Thomas, Ventura and all that stuff. But so you can look at it, they didn't have any postseason experience really amongst a lot of these guys before. So how good they would have been, but Jose I think we don't know for a fact, but seeing what a lot of these guys left the next year or two and went on and did in the playoffs, I think they would have been money for the Expos.
Jose Ruiz (22:36.652)
Yeah.
Jose Ruiz (23:01.922)
Yeah, I agree. Like Moises Salou, lot of playoff experience later on, but he performed pretty big. He performed for Florida Marlins pretty well. you know, have, Morquise Grissom went to Atlanta, played well in the playoffs for the Braves, won a World Series. you know, so you have, you have a lot of guys who eventually showed what they can do in this moment, in those moments. So, and I think you had the, you know, you had the manager who was very calm, cool and collected, you know, you never see Moises Salou.
Deremy (23:06.585)
Mm -hmm.
Deremy (23:15.81)
One of World Series.
Jose Ruiz (23:31.5)
I mean, Felipe, excuse me, overboard screaming, anything like that, getting thrown out of a game or something like that. He was very calm and he held that team together. And I think he would have shown also he would, he would have shown what he can do as a manager as well. So yeah, I think they would have been fine to be, to be honest with you. I think the Braves would, they would have been tough with the Braves, but they were playing the Braves at this point. think, yeah, the divisions already were three divisions now. So they were playing the Braves a bunch already, you know, Cincinnati was good,
You know, I don't think Cincinnati was going to be that big of, you know, of like a deter for them to get to the World Series.
Deremy (24:10.074)
Well, let me, because I think at that point, I feel like it might have been they played maybe nine, I don't know how many times they have played like, you know, maybe nine times.
Jose Ruiz (24:24.66)
I think they were like five and two. Yeah, yeah, something like that. Yeah.
Deremy (24:26.832)
four against the Braves, so which is close. I know you can't go by the regular season record really once you get to the playoffs with competition, but who do you think would have been their biggest challenge? And how far do you think this team would have gone if the playoffs would have happened?
Jose Ruiz (24:49.922)
Yeah, I I think if you look at, mean, the Yankees were right behind them, you know, if they would have gotten to the World Series, you know, but I do think it would have been the Braves, you know, because again, like in the playoff series and you can, and I know the Braves fell short a lot of times, you know, but if you can throw, you know, Smoltz Glavin, Maddox, Maddox won the Cy Young this year. So if you could throw, you can throw those three guys in a, you know, seven game series, whatever the case may be at that point.
That's going to be tough to beat. You know what saying? Like, so you're looking at Pedro, Ken Hill, and what was the guy's name? Fasano or something like that. Fasero, Jeff Fasero. I don't know. Like, you know I'm saying? Like, and I know they had, were having a really good season, but you know, the playoffs are different, you know, and the Braves obviously at this point, been to a World Series, like, you know, they, I mean, I know the team is like starting to shift also, but those three guys, man, that's, that's tough.
Deremy (25:27.749)
Mm -hmm.
Jose Ruiz (25:49.302)
to be in a playoff series.
Deremy (25:51.364)
Yeah, I kind of wonder. don't know. Yeah, I don't know. Will they have gotten them in the first round or would have been in the LCS? I'm wondering,
Jose Ruiz (25:53.59)
It would have been a great series though.
Jose Ruiz (26:02.22)
Might have been the LCS, because I don't think... I mean, I'm thinking the way it is now, which is harder, kind of like...
Deremy (26:08.314)
Yeah, cause I feel like the Braves would have been the wild card. I do think the Expos would have held on for the division.
Jose Ruiz (26:14.616)
Oh, absolutely. Yeah. I mean, if you think about it, the Braves and any other division would have been in first place to accept the ALEs, you know, because the Yankees had like 70 wins, but I think the Braves are like 68 wins or something like that. So they were very good, you
Deremy (26:23.652)
Yeah. Right, right.
So I do just wonder, but I mean, a big thing is, you know, the Braves win the World Series the next year. Marquise Grissom is on the Braves that year. So you got to look at it like who he was a big factor for that team. then like, you know, 94, you're not having that. I really don't know. Like, but I do think I going into it, I thought, man, that would have been the biggest challenge. But if you get to, if let's say they get to the World Series, the Expos.
Jose Ruiz (26:41.586)
Absolutely, yeah.
Jose Ruiz (26:53.484)
Yeah. Yeah.
Deremy (26:58.992)
You know, you have the Yankees, which people, a lot of people now, I read articles about that 94 and they're going with the Yankees, but I don't know if the Yankees would have gotten there that
Jose Ruiz (27:08.16)
Yeah, I don't know either because that Chicago was good, you know, and you have the Indians, you know, obviously we all know what the Indians were at that time and the next season they get to the World Series. So that would have been, you know, a tough and this isn't like Jeter like, you know, all those guys, this is a makeshift. I don't want to call it a makeshift, but like it was just a bunch of old dudes on this team. You know what saying? Like, and,
Deremy (27:24.612)
Mm -hmm.
Jose Ruiz (27:35.084)
You know, they get Paul O 'Neill this year, I believe it is. okay, okay. So yeah, I don't know. Like I know they had a great record, but I just, I wasn't too sold on this Yankee scene here.
Deremy (27:37.806)
I think he came the year before.
Deremy (27:50.852)
Yeah, I'm not too sold on them either. I do wonder about that Cleveland team
Jose Ruiz (28:00.62)
Yeah, no, they were good. You know, and they were just one game back. You know, they finished one game back of the White Sox and the White Sox had a great year. You know what mean? So that would have been that would have been interesting, you know, because they were a good team, really good team.
Deremy (28:17.168)
I they have, and it's still, it's not what we would see in 95 and 97, but you still got Kenny Lofton, Viscale, Carlos Baerga, Albert Bell, Eddie Murray. You got Sandy Alomar, young Manny Ramirez. Real young, real young. So I do wonder like if, man, I think Cleveland, like they did the next year, I think that's the team.
Jose Ruiz (28:32.844)
Real young at this year, right? He's real young.
Deremy (28:44.656)
that would have won the American league, not New York. Because like you said, that young talent that New York got in 95 and in 96 wasn't there yet. But I do wonder that Montreal would get, I do think Atlanta would be their toughest.
Jose Ruiz (28:57.686)
Yeah, I think the winner of that, probably the winner of the World Series.
Deremy (29:00.972)
Okay, you think either, well, I think definitely Atlanta will get some with their pitching these. So you think Montreal would have gotten Cleveland
Jose Ruiz (29:08.394)
I think so. Yeah. I think cause that would have been another really fun series. Cause I think, you know, we all know what Pedro turned out to be too in the playoffs. You know what I mean? Like one of the best playoff pitchers and that watching Pedro against that lineup. Cause that lineup was already great. You just mentioned all the names. I think it would have been a lot of run scored though, you know, after Pedro, know Kenny Hill had a, had a great season, man, but you know, we talked about having the face Maddox, Moult's, Glavin.
talk about that lineup, having to face that lineup, you know what saying, six, seven times trying to beat that lineup, it's going to be tough. So it would have just, it would have been a really fun series to watch.
Deremy (29:49.936)
A lot of people look at this and say, if 94 plays out, Montreal still has a baseball team 30 years later.
Now we look at what happened in 95 the next year, Seattle, were, you know, close to people were like, Oh, save the team, save the Mariners. And they get to, yeah, that, you know, amazing LDS against the Yankees. wound up going to the LCS and losing the Cleveland. But a of people point to that and how exciting that was. that kept Seattle, you know, Mariners baseball going and, all those things. And, but Hey, they also got that new stadium, like, you know, safe.
Go field came in and all that stuff. Do you think, let's say hypothetical, the Expos win the division, you know, all those things, they win the LDS and they get to the Braves and they lose in the LCS. Great season, but they lose. Do you think Montreal, like baseball is still there? Like, do you think it had to be World Series or Bust for them? Or would that have been enough for them to keep baseball?
Jose Ruiz (30:59.49)
I don't think that would have been enough. And I honestly, I'm not even sure if a World Series title does it too. I think eventually the same thing is gonna happen. They just couldn't compete in Utah. I think so. I think so. And obviously I'm not into the books and all that stuff, but I don't know what they were bringing in revenue wise and things like that, but it wasn't what these other teams were bringing in for sure.
Deremy (31:13.136)
So this was inevitable in your opinion. Okay.
Jose Ruiz (31:29.752)
I think in my opinion, I think even if they won the world series, they still, these guys are still leaving. You know I'm saying? Like, I don't, I don't know if it's like a wholesale, like it was in 95, but these guys are not staying. You know I'm saying? Like they're eventually going to go and get more money somewhere else. I mean, at this point in time in baseball, them small market teams were really struggling, you know, and, and, and again, hence, you know, a lot of that stuff with the strike. Well, why, you know, that was a part of the strike, obviously. And,
Deremy (31:39.653)
Mm -hmm.
Deremy (31:49.434)
They were.
Jose Ruiz (31:58.55)
So no, don't think, I think either way, unless something would have happened, if they win the World Series and they build a stadium for them, I don't know, maybe, but I think inevitably they weren't gonna be able to keep all those guys.
Deremy (32:15.075)
No, I think,
I kind of, we didn't talk about it, I feel the same way. I just feel like...
There's things that are beyond, cause you look at it and even me getting ready for this episode. I was like, man, why didn't they keep investing in the scouting, blah, blah, blah? But if you look at the expose traditionally, they kind of did. They had a lot of. Yeah. They, that was the only way. So it's like, that was something that they had, the game change, the game evolve free agent, like, you know, these years, like the game did change, but it just shows. the older I get always
Jose Ruiz (32:39.973)
They had to. Yeah.
Deremy (32:56.718)
You know, we see some owners in baseball and some you don't, in all sports, some you see they're more public, others you don't hear about as much. But who you have running the ship is just so important. you know, something that, you you mentioned those documentaries that I think I've seen before too, and I was watching them getting ready for this. That change in ownership when they went from Charles Bronfman, who helped, you know, he was that, that one guy.
Jose Ruiz (33:21.164)
Yes.
Deremy (33:27.35)
And he did, you know, keep them competing. He did pour into it. He showed that. Yes.
Jose Ruiz (33:31.766)
He poured into the scouting too, like that. He, he, he eventually knew, especially after like, you know, that early team, we talked about Andre Dawson and all them. He right. Yeah. He knew after that, he was like, like we have to win by developing our own talent. Sorry. I didn't mean to jump in on you like
Deremy (33:41.962)
Gary Carter and stuff,
Deremy (33:49.84)
Yeah, he no, no, it was true because he couldn't keep up with the free agency. He, he wanted Reggie Jackson and Reggie Jackson went to New York and Steinbrenner's like, I got New York and I got that. So he knew it, but in 91, he sells the team to this group is 12 guy, like a conglomerate. And when do you ever hear like, you know, there's 12 guys at the top, like, you know, like that's not going to work. And when you go to that and you go to 12, not only have 12 guys with 12 guys who don't know.
Jose Ruiz (34:11.766)
Yeah, yeah.
Deremy (34:19.546)
baseball, they don't know the finances of baseball, you were doomed to fail. And I think that to your point, it would have happened anyway that these Expos were going to go
Jose Ruiz (34:32.428)
Yeah, I mean, just think, and again, it's hard to keep that much talent anyway, you know, but we talked about it earlier. Like, you know, you have, it's the same thing with like, you know, at the time, like the Florida Marlins, like teams like that where you're like, man, why don't they always get like, they always have these young, good players, you know, and it's the same thing cause they're not going to be able to get free agents. I mean, I don't know how the Marlins can get free agents, but.
You know, they, they're not going to pay free agents. So they have to develop their own guys. lot of these franchises, the A's obviously money ball and all that. Like there's a reason why these teams have to do that stuff, man. And so I think there's no way you're going to be able to keep Larry Walker or you can't keep Moises Alou. Obviously they lose Grissom like, you know, paying Pedro wet when they lost it right after that. So like all this great talent that they had.
They're not going to be able to keep it, man. So again, like that's why I teams like, like Kansas city now, you know, like I look at like some of these great young players they have and I'm like, I feel like they're just grooming them for like the Dodgers, Yankees, Phillies, Red Sox, know, right with the revenue sharing and all that, you know, and it's still, they still have a tough time keeping up. So imagine back in 94.
Deremy (35:37.464)
And that's with the changes in baseball. the, you know, yeah.
Deremy (35:47.45)
Right, absolutely. No, and I just think people want to point to the strike and they want to necessarily blame, you know, Bud Selig for the Expos not being there. Bugs Selig, he's done, to be fair to him, he has some pot, like the wild card, some pot, but a lot of negative, but you can't put everything on Bud. And I don't think this is on Bud Selig. I think this is on the game was changing and the fact
Jose Ruiz (36:05.036)
Yes.
Deremy (36:13.282)
It's huge, man. And I think anybody who's a sport fan, probably if you've been around long enough, you've experienced good ownership with teams and bad ownership. And we don't talk about it enough. That's night and day of what makes a difference. Like it really is. Like if you have bad ownership, you're almost, if you win, you're doing it like despite the odds. Like it's an anomaly. Like you don't see too many teams who win a
Jose Ruiz (36:30.476)
Yes.
Deremy (36:41.88)
And like ownership is like awful. Like it doesn't happen. you know, and I think that's what the Expos wound up getting. Awful ownership.
Jose Ruiz (36:50.07)
Right, because players talk, you know what I'm saying? Like obviously, you know, if they're, if I'm telling you, they're like, my job and I hate my boss. I hate my boss. He's a terrible boss. You're not going to want to come work at my job. Like, you know I'm saying? I think that's just common sense. So I think a lot of players talk about that stuff.
Obviously, know, agents know all this information. Agents don't want players to go to these teams and things like that. Look at Cincinnati. Cincinnati's having a good season. Terrible ownership at this time. You know what mean? Like a lot of people knew that. So the Yankees for a while there with Steinbrenner, you know what saying? Like terrible ownership. And even though we all know what George Steinbrenner, you know, was trying to do, but he would spend the money, but still like he was a rough owner to play for, you know? So
People will know this information. You're not gonna, you're not gonna, for a team, for a franchise that's gonna have a tough time getting free agents already, to add that piece to it, yeah, you're, nobody's gonna go there.
Deremy (37:48.238)
No, and I think that's just, because I thought about it, I'm like, it's not comparable to the Mariners. The Mariners got to the LCS and that was enough to keep them. I'm like, man, I don't think, I'm like, definitely if they lose in the LCS, I don't think that does anything. But I was like, yeah, a World Series appearance doesn't do it. A World Championship is interesting.
Jose Ruiz (37:58.988)
Bye.
Jose Ruiz (38:16.556)
It's an interesting one.
Deremy (38:16.578)
If they're like world champs, that's fascinating to me, but like I still don't have the confidence, but that's the only thing that may make me reconsider. Like if they won it all, if they just win the pennant, I still say it's a no for
Jose Ruiz (38:31.894)
Yeah, no, I... Again, the World Series piece, would... Something drastic would have to happen, you know, for them. And some different type of revenue that's coming in, TV deals, like even though all that, like they were struggling with... I don't know, there I mean, like... I know Montreal is a beautiful city, like I know what that fan base is like in the NHL. I know... I don't know...
what that's like for baseball or what it was like. I know people were showing up. know, yeah, somewhat. I remember that last series in 93 when they played the series, when they played the Phillies, excuse me, and that wasn't the last series, was a close to the one in the last series and that place was packed, you know, and what stuck out to me was that it was packed, you know what mean? Because I was so used to not seeing it like
Deremy (39:03.194)
somewhat.
Deremy (39:19.834)
Mm -hmm.
Jose Ruiz (39:22.792)
And I'm not sitting here calling them Montreal fans, not good baseball fans, but I think it leads to a part of why this team left. You know what saying? Like, and I know the ownership played a part in it, but they had a lot of good young talent for at least four years here. I don't know how much support they were getting.
Deremy (39:40.4)
I think for attendance in 94, they were definitely in the bottom half. I feel like in the bottom, like bottom 10 teams of attendance and you're having the best record in baseball. A great and exciting team. A lot of people say, because, know, and I, I've be honest, I've been to Canada once. Like, I don't, I don't know. I, you know, these cities very well personally, but a big hit was.
Jose Ruiz (39:47.938)
Yeah.
Jose Ruiz (39:51.65)
with a great team, you know?
Deremy (40:10.338)
for a year, the Expos came before the Blue Jays. So they had, you know, all of Canada and they had that more rich part with Toronto and that big market. But then when the Blue Jays get established, like, you know, almost a decade later, they're wanting that Toronto's theirs. So then Montreal kind of, it just went back from being, they were Canada's team. So the whole country's watching you to now you're just this little province team, your Quebec's team.
And that was a big difference, a big hit for him, Jose.
Jose Ruiz (40:42.636)
Yeah, no, absolutely. And if you look at that season, like in terms of like the most attendance, whatever, you know, you had the Braves, Orioles with Candenars, but that team was pretty good. You got the Restocks with Fenway and you know, got the both Chicago teams and you know, even teams like Cincinnati was out drawn. You know, Florida Marlins was out drawn, you know, the Expos. Right. Right.
Deremy (41:07.204)
Yeah, the Marlins. That was the year after their expansion. those Miami for pro sports sucks. To this day, they suck. You hear that Miami, you suck.
Jose Ruiz (41:14.016)
Right. Right. Even those World Series teams. Even those World Series teams. Like, they were still, like, was tough to sell out. You know, you got teams like Kansas City at the time. You know, their attendance was higher than the Expos. So I know you see a lot of these documentaries, all these Expos fans like crying and like, no, we support our team. No, you don't. Like, it's just simple. Yeah.
Deremy (41:38.36)
Yeah, you I think you had a cult you had a cult following. I think there are some Like you see in those documentaries. There's some of those super fans But like it probably yeah, like but it's it's not that I think that's the thing some of the names you gave the Orioles at that point established franchise The Red Sox for sure the Braves, but they had the whole Superstation Yeah, but they had the whole TBS Superstation thing
Jose Ruiz (41:46.594)
But that's everywhere,
Jose Ruiz (41:58.392)
Another suspect fan base.
Deremy (42:05.316)
You know, the Reds had had success, then when you give me like the Marlins out drew you in their second year of existing.
Jose Ruiz (42:12.792)
Colorado Rockies, Coors Field was not, it was nice, but that's another French, right, exactly, yeah.
Deremy (42:14.256)
Yeah, and
Deremy (42:19.418)
But they're new.
And they, but guess what? They showed that interest. Denver showed it and still does, you know? So I mean, one thing I didn't think about too though, was how hard it was if you run, because you know, you're in Canada, so you have Canadian dollars, but you have to pay the players American dollars. So doing that, like that, you know, transfer and that calculation.
Jose Ruiz (42:45.312)
Yeah, so there's a difference.
Deremy (42:50.496)
That's a lot. I never really thought about that. If you own the Blue Jays or if you own the Expos, there's Canadian money, but then you got to pay them Americans. So how you do all that, that's another added layer to this.
Jose Ruiz (43:04.95)
Yeah, I hear that a lot with like Maple Leafs fans and stuff, like how they talk about like free agents and things like that. And it's that always comes up, you know, so one interesting thing about attendance and I'll leave it at this.
Deremy (43:07.525)
Mm
Jose Ruiz (43:19.608)
The worst attendance in 94 was the Toronto Blue Jays fans. And just think about it. They're coming off of back to back World Series championships, you know, in 92, 93. I don't know. I just, think it lends to like, that's not their sport. You know I'm saying? Like baseball is just not the most popular sport there, which I totally understand, but it's like.
Deremy (43:42.832)
But what were the 94 Blue Jays? I feel like they
Jose Ruiz (43:48.147)
Back to back champs, you gotta support.
Deremy (43:49.968)
They are. I know I'm with you. They were 55 and 60 when the when the season ended in 94. I'm with you. I'm not giving an excuse, but I'm just like, feel like in 90 those World Series years, it was booming. They had good attendance, I feel. Yeah, the Sky Dome. But, know, yeah, we kind of see that like they're not the greatest when it comes to baseball. Toronto isn't either, but that's a big market.
Jose Ruiz (43:54.806)
Right, so they're not a terrible team.
Jose Ruiz (44:07.24)
they, yeah, that place was packed, yeah.
Deremy (44:18.96)
And yet that team is still there. Blue Jays have made it. So there is something to it. I kind of wonder though, I'm glad as a nice segue, because I kind of wondered it maybe would have made any difference at all, but say 94 continues and the Expos win. How do you think fans would have felt like USA fans if three years in a row, your world champs are teams from
Jose Ruiz (44:48.152)
I'll give you another one. How about 93 Day get in and it's the all Canadian World Series. You know what I mean? Right, if the Expos get in and get to the World Series the way they were playing and they were playing the Blue, like people would have lost their minds, man. You know what I mean? I was thinking about that earlier. Like, man, they were close. They were close to getting to the Phillies.
Deremy (44:56.315)
if the Expos would have gotten in. Yeah.
Jose Ruiz (45:11.736)
And again, I don't think they would have gotten to the world series that year, but just hypothetical. That would have been, that would have been insane to watch two Canadian teams playing the world series. But even then say they went in 94, three years in a row, man, like that's the good old boys would have had a tough time, you know, with that stuff, man. But, but they were developing teams and they were playing really well. mean, the Blue Jays, did an episode, check the archives on, on,
Deremy (45:30.031)
Yeah.
Deremy (45:37.882)
Check
Jose Ruiz (45:39.64)
the 93 Blue Jays in that World Series. So they had a great team. I don't think they would have beaten, I don't think the Expo's beat the Blue Jays if they would have gotten to the World Series, but that would have been interesting, man. Three years in a row, a team out of the United States wins the World Series.
Deremy (45:54.736)
Well, because I think that, especially back then, even if people didn't openly admit it, I think it would happen now to an extent. like, there is that nationalism, even though we're all North America, I do think like, people look at that. And in the 90s, you know, the internet's a new thing in like 94. So like, you know, how many people were watching? I mean, obviously when they came to your town or your city of the Expos and Blue Jays, but you
Jose Ruiz (46:12.012)
Right, yeah, yeah.
Deremy (46:24.25)
were they getting the national game of the week a lot? don't know how many people were really watching those teams and like what the ratings would have been for those world series. I think like, cause I don't, you helped me remember with the blue Jays winning. didn't see a lot of like blue J gear at that
Jose Ruiz (46:33.367)
No.
Jose Ruiz (46:43.18)
Bright. No, I agree. I agree. And they had a diverse team and they had Latin players. had African -American players like, you know, they had a lot and you know, even that still, you know, and no, I, would have been, it would have been really, really, really interesting to see that. Cause you, cause even this year is like to switch it to hockey a little bit. Like the big push for the Edmonton Oilers to win the Stanley Cup was what?
Deremy (47:13.465)
Canada hasn't won a cup in years.
Jose Ruiz (47:15.932)
Right. That's every year. So if that's not a big factor, why does that always come up? Since 93, they haven't won a Stanley Cup and that always comes up. So I think vice versa would have been the same thing.
Deremy (47:27.28)
I think so. Also another interesting thing would have been to connect these two Canadian teams. Cito Gadsden winning World Series 1993. And if you get Felipe Alou, that's back to back, managers of color being World Series winning managers.
Jose Ruiz (47:48.162)
There would have been a lot of heads blowing out.
Deremy (47:50.882)
I think so. I think so. And I think, you know, both our managers who were very pretty low key. Weren't real excitable. And I just very classy guys, very classy guys, but I think it just would have been I he I want to know who for you, I think he's the guy on that expo team is the skipper whose legacy is affected the most by this not, you know, this season not happening.
Jose Ruiz (48:02.027)
Very classy guys, very classy guys.
Jose Ruiz (48:15.957)
Absolutely.
I agree a hundred percent. think if he wins his world series, who knows what happens in, know, in 95, but that's teams kind of stays together. think they would have had a lot of pressure to keep this team together. You know what I mean? Like if they would have won in 94, I think that would have been a difference. We're talking about like keeping the team around, like maybe they would have stayed a little longer. I don't know financially they were able to do it. I know they were just really
financially they were really struggling to come 95 and they knew that was coming
I think, if he wins it, man, and he has another successful year in 95, and he goes to the Giants and all that later on, but man, we're definitely talking about Felipe Alou that's one of the best managers in the 90s and in that generation for sure, if he wins a World Series.
Deremy (49:08.782)
Yeah. And I do also think, feel like he wasn't a hot commodity as a skipper, but I think if he wins a world series, I think other teams will be wanting them. Other teams will be going after him too. Like, cause he was more, I feel like a little more outgoing than Cito Gatson was for Toronto. But also I think people knew him in the game more. Like people knew him like to what you said, like coaching those guys in the summer league.
Jose Ruiz (49:18.092)
Yeah, that changes,
Jose Ruiz (49:28.588)
Yes.
Deremy (49:35.908)
He had more of a name to him than what Aceto Gatson did. So I feel like he could have been, you who knows? He gives opportunities. Who knows if, you know, Joe Torrey doesn't get that Yankee job. Maybe, you know, Buck Showalter gets it. Yeah, Buck Showalter gets axed and they want Felipe Alou. You know, like you never know. So I just think it's interesting, but.
Jose Ruiz (49:39.83)
Yeah, I agree with that.
Jose Ruiz (49:49.024)
Right? It goes to the mats or something.
Jose Ruiz (49:57.058)
Good point.
Jose Ruiz (50:02.774)
And I think if he goes to the end, still, they don't, I don't think they win as many World Series because I think Joe Torre was a big part of that, but they're still very successful with a nice young team with Jeter and all those guys. Yeah.
Deremy (50:11.563)
Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm.
Absolutely. Should this be the thing that is talked about most from the 94 baseball
Jose Ruiz (50:26.397)
It's tough man, because I think those individual seasons that we were
I think Tony Gwynn gets close to 400. You know what mean? Like he was having an amazing season. You you talked about Matt Williams was, you know, and Griffey and I don't know, man. Like I, I think the aftermath is the biggest story of the baseball strike and how baseball to this day, I think it's still effective. Um, I know the game has changed a lot and there's a lot of great teams
You know, in some markets, the game is not struggling at all. Like talk about Philadelphia for sure, it's not struggling, not even a little bit. But I think fans have, when they left baseball, they never really came back, you know, and then they got older and then these younger kids now are, definitely not into baseball. I think that was the biggest impact of the strike. For me, I, I, it's tough, man. I think about this often too, Darren, like, was it the
Expose or what is these individual seasons and I don't know. I struggle with that. I want to say
I would have liked to see in his Expo team and what they can do in the playoffs. You know, I think Tony Gwinn is going to continue to have good seasons. Griffey had continued to have good seasons. Like there were some teams that, you know, Frank Thomas won MVP. Like he was going to continue to have good seasons. know, know, Greg Maddox won the Cy Young. He was going to continue. Like I think, I do think the worst part of the year 94 was this Expo team.
Deremy (51:57.904)
I would have loved to have seen Tony Gwyn hit 400. I mean, he's already a Hall of Famer, RIP, great known as one of the great hitters ever. But I just think what that does for his legacy, if he, you know, breaks that streak and hits 400, I think he grows so much. I kind of wonder what happens to it. I mean, I steroids were inevitable. They were already in the game at this point. But I mean,
Jose Ruiz (52:01.858)
Yeah.
Deremy (52:26.96)
If Matt Williams or Griffey breaks Maris's record and at the rate that he was going, cause I know it's August 12th when it stops and he has 43 and you're like, well, he like a month and a half almost like, month with some change. Could he had gotten it? And it's like the way he was going, he could have gotten that. He could have at least gotten to 60 or 61. So what that does for the home run, like the whole steroid boom, I think is very interesting.
Jose Ruiz (52:36.353)
Yeah.
Jose Ruiz (52:47.488)
Yeah. He was he...
Jose Ruiz (52:53.9)
Yeah, imagine Matt Williams being the guy that broke Roger Maddus' record. That would have been interesting, you know?
Deremy (52:59.77)
Well, at the thing is to look at like Roger Maris is not that kind of besides that thing like that record. He's not that kind of a he was a good player. Don't get me wrong, but he's not that kind of
Jose Ruiz (53:03.586)
True.
Jose Ruiz (53:12.684)
And what's interesting, it's like, what we would have had, would have been
similar to like 98 where if it's Griffey and Matt Williams and like are we checking SportsCenter every you know I know I know Griffey's in the West Coast so we would have to stay up late which we me and you already doing but it's like would have been that push the same push like you know I'm saying like with the Sosa Maguire thing like that would have been really interesting too to see man like a young great Griffey and he continues to hit the way he was in which I feel like he would have I think Matt Williams would have cooled off eventually
Deremy (53:28.666)
Mm -hmm.
Jose Ruiz (53:46.796)
You never know, you know what saying? Like it would have been dumped too against each other. Like one guy, both West Coast guys, like it would have been, it would have been really interesting.
Deremy (53:55.824)
Yeah, it probably wouldn't have been as covered the same because they weren't doing it in the same. I was going to be no why. Like if you watch like Matt Williams in 94 and Griffey, it's like, oh wow, it's impressive. I'm wrong. It's impressive. But in 98, I mean, it was like they were playing home run Derby every night. they were just hitting these. It was just crazy how they did it. So I think that's the difference. It was how they looked.
Jose Ruiz (53:58.528)
Nah, I don't think
Jose Ruiz (54:14.624)
Yeah. Yeah.
Deremy (54:23.472)
But like how they were doing it, was just like, McGuire hit three a day, he hit two and then like he cooled off and then he gets 10 in like a week. Like, you know, it's like what? Like it just was nuts.
Jose Ruiz (54:32.748)
Yeah
Jose Ruiz (54:36.62)
Yeah, I was watching Long Gone Summer the other night, like just because I was like, man, like I haven't watched this in a long time. It's just funny to me. Yes, we did check the archives for sure. And it's just funny to me when I watched those old highlights and I've I know this is like sidetracked, but when I watched Mark Reguire,
Deremy (54:40.591)
Mm -hmm.
Deremy (54:44.615)
And we did an episode about that, think, too,
Jose Ruiz (54:57.144)
trot the bases. I'm like, this dude is like ginormous, man. His uniform is like barely fitting him. He's like not even moving. He's like a robot. And I agree. I don't think it's covered as the way that would have been. Cause also baseball was pushing that because they was, you know, they needed that. I don't think 94, they didn't need that. You know I'm saying? Like, so I don't know. it would have been fun though for me to watch.
Deremy (55:01.17)
it's
Deremy (55:24.208)
It would have been fun and I think it would have been interesting. And obviously, yeah, they pushed this to bounce back because I mean, fans were mad when they came back in 95. Fans were pissed. And I just think I look at how the way the game gets me is the clips that are sad for 94 strike. And I guess this is where the Expos may make a case for me as being the saddest story.
Jose Ruiz (55:35.127)
Yeah
Deremy (55:54.927)
is everyone, you know, everyone's saying we've had the World Series, we had World Wars, we had this, we had that, and we still had the World Series. And now we can even add years later, we've had pandemics and stuff and we still had a World Series, but in 94 no World Series. And if you watch how the World Series was, even from 93 and on, like in the past, it still had like a pageantry.
Jose Ruiz (55:55.384)
That's a good way to put
Deremy (56:24.248)
And I feel once it came back, you can kind of see it. That pageantry was gone from the World Series and we don't have that anymore. I think that's what makes me sad. The World Series used to be an event and from when the strike ended and they came back, it's a big deal if you're a fan and stuff, but it's not an event
Jose Ruiz (56:30.114)
Yeah.
Jose Ruiz (56:43.936)
No, is, baseball lost a lot. You know I'm saying? Like, and I don't know if we can even like, if we even know the magnitudes of how it affected baseball. Like for us, we were happy I was back. You know I'm saying? Cause we were just nerds like that and fans like that. And especially
Deremy (56:52.985)
Mm -hmm.
Jose Ruiz (57:05.944)
Some of us baseball is still the number one sport, even though I was mad that they go on strike and I lost the World Series in this fun season. Even like I was thinking like the 94 homerun derby, the All game was in Pittsburgh that year, right? And Frank Thomas hit like a 7 ,000 foot homerun. Like even that was like so much fun to watch, you know, and we lost all of that, you know, and, but it's just, I don't know, man. When did the interleague play start?
Deremy (57:34.66)
That came after this.
Jose Ruiz (57:36.874)
Right? And I think that's a part of why that Mystique of the World Series is gone. I was thinking about, I don't know why I was thinking about all of this this week, but... Right. And it's just like, I remember not... I think Interleague for me is like, the All -Star game almost. That's what I was thinking about, watching the All -Star game. And it ruined the All -Star game because it's like, these guys play each other all the time. Back when we were growing up there, I mean...
Deremy (57:46.704)
There's so much intertwined with it, with the Expos and this strike, yeah.
Deremy (58:01.552)
For sure.
Jose Ruiz (58:07.404)
That wasn't the case. So when you saw these guys, it was like, holy shit, like Pedro's against like Mark Maguire. Like it was like, you don't never going to see that. And I think the world series is suffering because of that too.
Deremy (58:16.858)
Yeah, no, great points. All great points you made, And I agree, another awesome point you made was the seismic effect. And I think that's where the expos kind of lose me as far as like feeling sorry for them is because I see what happened with the strike. And I think on paper, someone who doesn't know,
We'll look at how the game, the revenue deals are still good. Teams are still getting money. Players are still getting paid. There's an MLB network and all that stuff. So MLB survived, right? But it's like, if you look on paper, that's what you think. But you honestly know, like the lore, the magnitude of it is what's hit. And that's what you need in a sport. You do need, you need the revenue. You need those analytical numbers that you can point to and touch.
But I think you need that lore. You need that like, wow, what's going to get the common person to the screen to watch you? Okay. Common fans were watching the World Series. Common fans do not watch the World Series now, unless you're going to give me the Red Sox in 04 or the Cubs snapping the streak. People are losing that. And I think that's where I'm like, man, just baseball.
is gone. Like, you know, we've mentioned it on this show before. Pre 1994, Mike Trout is not going to be known. A Mike Trout type of talent will be known. Now he's not known.
Jose Ruiz (59:53.078)
I mean, yeah, like where baseball is thriving is like these cities where these teams are always competitive. Like, again, like for us in Philly, baseball is thriving. You know what saying? Like the Phillies are good. That place, Sinus' bank is sold out every single game. You know, you go to some of these other cities and you know, like Phillies were in Pittsburgh. I mean, keep harping on the Phillies, but they were in Pittsburgh over the weekend. And that
80 % Phillies fans, know what I mean? and Phillies fans travel well, but I just think it's a part of like, Pittsburgh is just like a team and you know, fans are not showing up for
Deremy (01:00:35.6)
But I think that's the case though. What about it with, and we kind of said some things Montreal because like, yeah, Pittsburgh has kind of struggled for a while, but yet that's still a big part. They got a new stadium, beautiful stadium. They were made a part of it, but you look at Montreal, you look at what's going on with the Oakland A's and how sad that story is. And I see the parallels with
Jose Ruiz (01:00:49.836)
Beautiful stadium.
Deremy (01:01:04.752)
Expos and the A's and it's just like you look at ownership, but you look at these cities and that goes with fans, but that also goes with like, you know politics and all that stuff too, like what goes on here and how come you're not keeping these teams because Pittsburgh has had a lot of losing seasons over these years in the past 30 years Philly is hot right now had a lot of losing seasons in these past 30
Jose Ruiz (01:01:06.006)
Yep. Yep.
Deremy (01:01:33.422)
You know, Baltimore is doing good now. lot of losing seasons, but yet those franchises, you're not thinking about them being shipped out. But what's going on here? Why Montreal? Why an Oakland A's?
Jose Ruiz (01:01:46.028)
And the A's had a great fan base too. Like I don't get that man at all. And I was kind of upset because they were in Philly and I was like, man I should have went to that game man, one of those games just to kind of like, you know, see them one more time in Oakland. But yeah, I agree man. Like I agree. think.
Deremy (01:01:48.078)
Mm -hmm.
Jose Ruiz (01:02:04.812)
You know, Montreal is not one of those was wasn't one of those staple franchises that no matter what fans are going to show up in Chicago for the Cubs fans show up. You know what saying? I know Wrigley is a big part of that and maybe that's what they were missing. Like maybe they were missing a place for fans. We'll want to just go. And the thing is in Montreal, Montreal stadium, fans did not want to go to that stadium either. So when you don't have a good product and like
Cause Camden Yards was that, know, Citizens Bank Park is that like, even though the team may not be good, but the stadium is so great that you're like, you know, I'm just going to go enjoy myself a little bit, some good food or whatever. Like if you don't have that either, that's, that's tough, man. Like that's a tough thing to kind of get over.
Deremy (01:02:47.792)
But I'm, and this is where I'm really out of my league here because I'm not a politician. I'm not a dollars and cents guy. Like I understand. know. I appreciate that. I appreciate that. You'd be my running mate, but I don't get it though, because we've been lucky enough. Certain cities have been to see that effect and to see the boom of the economy. Just when you have that, what that does for people wanting to go out to eat people, jobs.
Jose Ruiz (01:02:56.138)
I'd vote for you though man, if you were, There you go.
Jose Ruiz (01:03:15.948)
Go ahead.
Deremy (01:03:18.18)
You know all these things like that's what I don't get why a city doesn't rally to keep a team Especially once you already have it you fought to get a team Which takes a lot to get a team to a city, but why not invest in this because like you said man? Especially even if the team is bad, but then it goes even crazier if the team is winning But you have a hot stadium that you sell out all that revenue jerseys all that, you know
Jose Ruiz (01:03:41.175)
Right.
Deremy (01:03:48.044)
vendors and all those things and Then everything in the city's buzzing but all those restaurants and stuff the economy booms Like I don't get like why Oakland isn't trying to invest in that and what that could have done for the city I don't understand why Montreal didn't do that and just what that could do for the city. It just confuses me. I don't get
Jose Ruiz (01:03:49.346)
Parking like you name it man
Jose Ruiz (01:04:11.212)
Yeah, because I think we talked about the Pirates a little bit ago and I think that helps them. You know what mean? Like PNC Park is a beautiful, beautiful park. But they've been terrible since the early 90s. You know what mean? Like they had a couple runs, they were McCutcheon, but that was it. But people just like to go to that stadium and it's restaurants all around. It's just a beautiful park, man.
Deremy (01:04:19.023)
Mm -hmm.
Jose Ruiz (01:04:34.666)
I don't get that either. And I know it can cost a lot of money and taxpayer this and that. Again, just like you, Derrick, I'm not into all of that. to me, it's common sense. It would help this city. And then not only that, now you're getting All -Star games because why? You have a beautiful park. It can add a lot to that. I think you do that if you want to keep the team.
You know what mean? inevitably, like if you're a city and you really want to keep this team, you will make those moves. But if you don't really, in Montreal's case, I don't know if Oakland did that, the case, but I think in Montreal,
Deremy (01:05:14.17)
I think in Oakland it's definitely, not with the fans, like some of the fans, but definitely with like ownership and politicians, they don't wanna keep it in my opinion.
Jose Ruiz (01:05:20.534)
Right,
And that Vegas area, it's hot. know what mean? Now they got hockey. You know what saying? They'll have an NBA team there soon. It's hot. And they got the Raiders now. It's just, I get it.
Deremy (01:05:40.558)
I just don't, I, and I wish I, someone could explain it to me because like I said, it's not easy to get a professional franchise in your city. So you had to fight and work hard to get it there. Like, it's not like anyone could just, I want a team in this new city. And it's just like, okay, we throw you one. You've worked hard to get it. Why not build that up and just, just invest in it. And I think.
Jose Ruiz (01:06:07.606)
Yeah.
Deremy (01:06:10.576)
That's what I look at Montreal and the sauna, these teams. I go, I feel bad for those legit super fans, but then I kind of go with some of the like, were so many of you? Why did this happen? I look at the Raiders with Oakland. Why did this have to happen? Like, like it didn't need to happen in my experience and my opinion, but it's, going on. And I can't feel that sorry for you when you have a great team in 94.
and you're getting, you know, outsold by the Reds in that awful stadium and we got Barry, Barry Larkin. That's and I like Barry Larkin, but he's not he wasn't exciting, my opinion. Like Barry Larkin's it. Like, I don't know, like you're in the bottom 10. That dumb dog. Shitting on the field. March shots, a Nazi like, come on.
Jose Ruiz (01:06:46.828)
Yeah.
Jose Ruiz (01:06:55.939)
Yeah. Yeah. More shots. that big ass dog.
Jose Ruiz (01:07:04.184)
Yo, that was a shit show and they outdrew you. So imagine, imagine Cincinnati having the 94 Expos. Like, they'd have probably led the league in attendance. You know what saying? Like
Deremy (01:07:08.398)
Yes, like March.
Deremy (01:07:16.056)
Yeah, I mean, God, gee, we would have had more March shot, which was awful. Donald Sterling's sister. Like, ugh. Yeah, honestly, they're close. It's a running. There's neck and neck. you get out drawn there, you have the best years. So people don't say that. See, that's why like, we do this show, because, they would have won. Really? You had this great team.
Jose Ruiz (01:07:20.03)
I know, I know, Yeah, pretty much, pretty much. But she might have been worse.
Jose Ruiz (01:07:45.325)
Yeah.
Deremy (01:07:45.462)
And the numbers don't show it. The attendance doesn't show it. Like, what, are you going to wait for the playoffs to show up?
Jose Ruiz (01:07:49.9)
Yeah, that's terrible.
And they would have shown up for the playoffs because the playoffs, like everybody shows up fans, right? Fans were not fans show up to the playoffs just to say you were there, you know, but it's again, like it's a shame that this, I don't want to call them an amazing team, but this crazy talented team, young team, Cliff Floyd, we don't even talk about him this episode. Like he was a, he was an all star. He was, you know what I mean? Like it's
Deremy (01:07:56.163)
It's an event.
Jose Ruiz (01:08:21.014)
And he wins the World Series at the Marlins too. it's just, man, like so many great players. as a fan base, I'm looking at this team. I'm a young Phillies fan and I'm like, man, like if I, I would do anything for a team like that, you know? And they had it and they just let it slip away.
Deremy (01:08:22.724)
Mm -hmm.
Deremy (01:08:41.22)
Yeah. And I think one thing that stinks, but when you see Seattle, the Sonics and basketball and they go to OKC and guess what? They're booming fan base is great. You know, the Nationals won a world series without their best player. Bryce Harper came here, but like there people go to that stadium in Washington. So I mean, it's not helping that like, man, like these teams are moving and it's looking
Jose Ruiz (01:08:53.1)
Breaks.
Jose Ruiz (01:08:58.917)
Right.
Deremy (01:09:10.67)
For some of them, it was the right choice.
Jose Ruiz (01:09:12.269)
It was the right choice, yeah. I agree.
Deremy (01:09:15.022)
So do you think a team should be back in Montreal? So you learned their lesson?
Jose Ruiz (01:09:19.144)
No, no, no, I don't think so. I just think, and this happens too often, like certain fan bases, like certain cities that really never supported their teams, that don't support their teams as much as other fan bases do, let's just say. Like I'll give you an example. Like I know when they were talking about, I'm going to like always give you an NHL example,
This past year when they announced the expansion team, Atlanta was one of the finalists. I'm like, what are we doing here? Like, this will be the third time that you had a team there. Like, don't you learn your lesson? I get Atlanta's a huge market, but they were not support a hockey team. Like, they're not going to do that. They lost two teams already. And I'm glad, you know, Utah got in. I think they'll support that team well there, but I just think, I think if a city is showing you what they are, like you better, you better believe them. And I don't know
Maybe if they get a beautiful facility, a dome stadium and yeah, I don't know, but I'm just not sure. don't think they will come out and support
Deremy (01:10:18.553)
In Montreal you're talking?
Deremy (01:10:26.35)
No, I...
I'm not sold on it either. And I think what, what needs to happen is, we won't, we wouldn't know that in, you know, only time would tell you gotta have a dynamic owner. Like, I mean, I know, I know all teams need, but I think for something like that to sell me, you really have to have a dynamic owner again. Yeah.
Jose Ruiz (01:10:41.965)
Yeah.
Jose Ruiz (01:10:49.718)
Yeah, super creative, yeah, willing to spend a lot of money, you know what I mean? Like, bringing guys, develop, it'll have to be, he would have to be a great owner.
Deremy (01:11:01.328)
Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm. So nah, man. I just think this was interesting and I think it's It's we're telling the truth on it because you will probably see a lot, you know August about 30 years articles and stuff about the baseball strike and the effects and There's truth to it that what it did for 94 Expos obviously it ended that season. They had a best record in baseball, but I do think it's it's
misleading to say that if that season would have continued, that baseball would still be in Montreal. And I think people don't want to admit that, but it's the truth. Baseball would not be there.
Jose Ruiz (01:11:42.604)
Yeah, so I'm glad we were able to come out here and let everyone know. We opened up some old wounds today, Jeremy, but it had to be done.
Deremy (01:11:50.446)
I think it's the truth. think it, you we say we connect the past with the present, but you know, it's happening with the A's and, know, and how sad that is. And we saw like the, the, the boycotts or the fan bases and stuff like that. And you know what? Let's be real. We've seen it in all these sports. It's going to happen again with these, a team that we're like, they don't like, you know, it's not like Atlanta and hockey, where it's like, they don't establish this part of the city.
Jose Ruiz (01:12:14.284)
Yeah.
Deremy (01:12:18.106)
But it's going to be some team where like, they're so a part of that city. How can they move? This is how. Like if you don't watch it, it could happen to anybody. That's why I'm starting to respect. Yeah. You know, I'm, that's why I'm kind of grateful in Philly. Like we have our four because like, man, like if any of the four just move, like that would be a crusher to me and a lot of people, like a part of the city would be different. So,
Jose Ruiz (01:12:27.394)
Like a Cleveland, Axe Cleveland.
Jose Ruiz (01:12:43.883)
Absolutely.
Deremy (01:12:44.792)
You know, it's good lessons to talk about it and what we need to do differently as fan bases and as cities to keep that franchise.
Jose Ruiz (01:12:52.62)
Yeah. Yeah. And it's not a lot to do. We just got to show up and I know it's expensive and I get it and I get jerseys and all that are expensive. And I'm not telling you to go run out and buy jerseys and all that stuff, but enjoy what you have. You know what I mean? Cause there's some cities that again, Cleveland Browns, they don't, people showed up, you know I'm saying? Like, and still lost the team. And I would be devastated if that happened to me. You know what I mean? Like extremely devastated. It would change how I look at sports, I think.
that would happen to me. You know what saying? Like, and I don't know, but you know, I'm just glad I live in a city that has great ownership. You know what I mean? Like I think Sixers ownership is suspect to me, it's either way they trying to win. You know I'm saying? Like, and I know there's a lot of cities that have that too, but unfortunately for our episode today, they did not have that.
Deremy (01:13:23.291)
yeah.
Deremy (01:13:42.813)
Yeah. And we're, we're obviously from Philly, but we're not just a Philly show. And I think a lot of people, and I'm saying you can't critique ownership in your city and there's not things that I can't complain. But if you have a team, especially a team that's been there for a while, be grateful that it's still there. Be grateful that you still have a team to be upset about. Like, so it's important. Jose, was good. You
Jose Ruiz (01:14:03.51)
Right. Right.
Deremy (01:14:08.496)
We had our summer break and talk about 94 Expos. We got a lot of good stuff coming. We have a wrestling preview and summer slam and talking about the state of the WWE, that's coming up. We have episodes on our YouTube channel, looking at remembering Pat Williams. And we also have some more baseball possibly a Ricky Henderson episode.
Jose Ruiz (01:14:12.887)
Yeah.
Jose Ruiz (01:14:33.974)
Yeah, maybe some Pete Rose. don't know. Got a new documentary coming out. So there might be some stuff on YouTube on, you know, how we feel about this documentary. So we got a lot of stuff coming on,
Deremy (01:14:44.408)
Yeah, man. So we had a nice July, you know, to get recharged, regroup, but we're here to give you guys a lot more content. So please like, subscribe, you know, tell your friend word of mouth wherever you listen to podcast. And also please go on YouTube, find our YouTube channel, like subscribe bigger than the game with Dereme and Jose, our YouTube channel as well. We're going to be giving you guys some more great new content, but for the hardest working man in show business.
Mr. Jose Ruiz, I'm Dereme Dove. Thank you guys for listening to Bigger Than a Gang with Dereme and Jose.
Jose Ruiz (01:15:18.722)
Peace.